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Post by Tony on Jul 10, 2014 18:49:52 GMT
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Post by MDV on Jul 10, 2014 19:03:41 GMT
Certainly they are addictive. That much is just obvious.
As addictive as heroin? That's not a matter of opinion, that's a matter of study. There's a real empirical answer there, if that's a question anyone seriously wants to ask (rather than throw around for the sensationalism).
I can't put any stock in the 'encourages X type of behaviour' claims. They're always post hoc ergo propter hoc with extremely limited cases. A couple of kids that played call of duty killed themselves. So? That means nothing about call of duty. Or any other controversial game of the month. There's no demonstration of causality there, just trivialising suicide by regarding it as simplistic and one dimensional and using kids deaths as a platform for an attack on gaming. That's quite horrifically cold, Machiavellian rhetoric. Such willfull misunderstanding to further ones own pet cause won't help stop any kids from killing themselves.
And the other reason, even though the above is an a priori objection to the entire kind of argument - tens of millions of people play call of duty alone. Hundreds of millions, maybe even low billions of poeple play video games. At this point statistics based on a couple of examples are worth precisely nothing, and even any epidemiological study (if the term applies, which it might if we're questioning serious mental health concerns) is worthless because your control group has to be a completely different demographic or people of the same age groups from a completely different period of history.
The above rant was brought to you partially by liking video games, and mainly by contempt for bad science and sensationalist rhetoric.
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Post by Tony on Jul 10, 2014 19:10:53 GMT
I knew you would have something to say on this.
As a videogame lover myself I played countless hours of mortal kombat in my youth and I can honestly say that I have never desired to rip someones head off or the like.
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Post by MDV on Jul 10, 2014 19:28:51 GMT
Quite. I've been a saboteur, thief, hacker, assassin, mercenary, soldier, general, dictator, and genocidal tyrant. I've destroyed whole civilisations and slaughtered trillions.
Of ones and zeroes, that were never alive in the first place. I mean, seriously, it shouldn't even need to be said.
If anyone can't distinguish between fantasy and reality, it's the small minority of people that had mental health issues before they played anything at all, and the people that want to demonise gaming.
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Post by Dave on Jul 10, 2014 20:23:22 GMT
So, anyone with experience of both videogames and heroin to comment??
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Post by MDV on Jul 10, 2014 20:42:15 GMT
So, anyone with experience of both videogames and heroin to comment??  |
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Post by Dave on Jul 10, 2014 20:47:51 GMT
and who can forget.... good old South Park, there before the Sun...  HEROIN HERO |
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Post by Davemc on Jul 11, 2014 20:15:19 GMT
Certainly they are addictive. That much is just obvious. As addictive as heroin? That's not a matter of opinion, that's a matter of study. There's a real empirical answer there, if that's a question anyone seriously wants to ask (rather than throw around for the sensationalism). I can't put any stock in the 'encourages X type of behaviour' claims. They're always post hoc ergo propter hoc with extremely limited cases. A couple of kids that played call of duty killed themselves. So? That means nothing about call of duty. Or any other controversial game of the month. There's no demonstration of causality there, just trivialising suicide by regarding it as simplistic and one dimensional and using kids deaths as a platform for an attack on gaming. That's quite horrifically cold, Machiavellian rhetoric. Such willfull misunderstanding to further ones own pet cause won't help stop any kids from killing themselves. And the other reason, even though the above is an a priori objection to the entire kind of argument - tens of millions of people play call of duty alone. Hundreds of millions, maybe even low billions of poeple play video games. At this point statistics based on a couple of examples are worth precisely nothing, and even any epidemiological study (if the term applies, which it might if we're questioning serious mental health concerns) is worthless because your control group has to be a completely different demographic or people of the same age groups from a completely different period of history. The above rant was brought to you partially by liking video games, and mainly by contempt for bad science and sensationalist rhetoric. +1 The other thing that annoys me is that they never make the link between books and stuff like this, or films (they stopped linking it to films once video games came along :  So, anyone with experience of both videogames and heroin to comment?? |
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Post by MDV on Jul 11, 2014 20:32:26 GMT
Certainly they are addictive. That much is just obvious. As addictive as heroin? That's not a matter of opinion, that's a matter of study. There's a real empirical answer there, if that's a question anyone seriously wants to ask (rather than throw around for the sensationalism). I can't put any stock in the 'encourages X type of behaviour' claims. They're always post hoc ergo propter hoc with extremely limited cases. A couple of kids that played call of duty killed themselves. So? That means nothing about call of duty. Or any other controversial game of the month. There's no demonstration of causality there, just trivialising suicide by regarding it as simplistic and one dimensional and using kids deaths as a platform for an attack on gaming. That's quite horrifically cold, Machiavellian rhetoric. Such willfull misunderstanding to further ones own pet cause won't help stop any kids from killing themselves. And the other reason, even though the above is an a priori objection to the entire kind of argument - tens of millions of people play call of duty alone. Hundreds of millions, maybe even low billions of poeple play video games. At this point statistics based on a couple of examples are worth precisely nothing, and even any epidemiological study (if the term applies, which it might if we're questioning serious mental health concerns) is worthless because your control group has to be a completely different demographic or people of the same age groups from a completely different period of history. The above rant was brought to you partially by liking video games, and mainly by contempt for bad science and sensationalist rhetoric. +1 The other thing that annoys me is that they never make the link between books and stuff like this, or films (they stopped linking it to films once video games came along : Yeah, its basically what the old prudes of the time didn't have when they were kids that's corrupting kids now. Rock n' roll passed the torch to tv and films passed it to games. Once the kids that grew up with the thing get old, they don't see it as a problem, but some subset of them pick on the next thing younger generations do that they didn't. Meanwhile I'm pretty sure murder, suicide and whatever else you care to mention have been around for a very long time. |
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Post by Tony on Jul 11, 2014 20:36:08 GMT
I'm claiming this one now.
Digital distribution causing suicides as companies go bust and consumers lose everything.
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Post by Davemc on Jul 12, 2014 18:26:23 GMT
+1 The other thing that annoys me is that they never make the link between books and stuff like this, or films (they stopped linking it to films once video games came along : Yeah, its basically what the old prudes of the time didn't have when they were kids that's corrupting kids now. Rock n' roll passed the torch to tv and films passed it to games. Once the kids that grew up with the thing get old, they don't see it as a problem, but some subset of them pick on the next thing younger generations do that they didn't. Meanwhile I'm pretty sure murder, suicide and whatever else you care to mention have been around for a very long time. Yep exactly. |
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